“THE AI AND I” WHAT WOULD DR DAVID DU PLESSIS SAY NOW? FALSE DOCTRINES AFTER THE CHARISMATIC RENEWAL

NOTE THE ABOVE :”‘Failing to discern the Body of Christ correctly” is like Communion , it makes or breaks “peaceful unity” and safe, trustworthy “Whole” ‘community” this it is sacred, and as before the Lord”(for God is watching) Bible teaching” Paul teaches in Communion (Lord’s supper) that “some died young and were ill for failing to discern the Body Of Christ correctly. So “Beware!”

So, for every human being, as we ALL speak in one form of “tongues” or another..be they in Book of Acts form, or World Wide Well Known, Or Good Neighbor, Fellow Church Attender and/or Foreign tongue..plus even big Gossipy Unsafe Tongues  https://www.esv.org/verses/Matt.%2012%3A37/

“The offering of the Lord was despised in that day” (in the I Samuel,” Eli, Temple high priest, ministry office days) The LP “Boys Will Be Boys” Club in local, high visibility, senior ministry (yet so it is right now… plus, it’s maybe been like that since the 1980s TV media scandals). Prophet T is just pondering.

Assess beneath as a Sr Apostle “Tennis Ball Selah” (meaning that the BALL IS IN YOUR COURT as to How to Proceed from this Time Forward)

“THE AI AND I” WHAT WOULD DR DAVID DU PLESSIS SAY “NOW?”

 FALSE DOCTRINES SINCE THE CHARISMATIC RENEWAL

(C)2023 Taveau D’Arcy All copyrights reserved

FIRST PART

THIS IS BIG HISTORY IN LIGHT OF MODERN DAY VERSIONS OF “CHARISMATIC”

Q. WHO WAS DR DAVID DU PLESSIS?

https://digitalshowcase.oru.edu/duplessis/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_du_Plessis

 

Q.  ABOUT THE  CHARISMATIC RENEWAL?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charismatic_movement

 

Q. WHAT WAS, WHAT HAS BECOME OF CATHOLIC CHARISMATIC RENEWAL ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charismatic_Renewal

CHARISMATIC RENEWAL WIDE AREA..FOND MEMORIES

Cross Body Unity Movement Official Logo

 

NOW THE TAVEAU ASKS CHAT GBT AI. SOME REAL STRONG DIFFERENCES IN BEFORE , DURING AND IN THE PRESENT: 

PURPOSE? This is to enlighten what is going on in much grassroots, which is now primarily “big boss” charismatic leader doctrines that have surfaced. Not ambitious and servant-first like the early days of charismatics.

TARGET….While what is mentioned beneath is American “Charismatic Renewal,” I call for “Charismatic Ministry Reform.”

in light of the “former charismatic renewal” & Jesus People.. and prior..so this is modern from 80’s onward

TD ASK ChatGPT Ai:

(LOCAL, AREA “CHURCH TALK”)
Q. CHURCH HOPPERS…In the First Church were the chief apostles concerned about “church hoppers?” Did they keep records of persons who went from “house to house” “church to church” (like many area apostles, pastors, prophets. do today)?

AI ANSWERS:

There is no explicit record in the New Testament indicating that the chief apostles in the early Church were specifically concerned about “church hoppers” or that they kept records of individuals who moved from house to house or church to church. The focus of the apostles in the New Testament was primarily on preaching the Gospel, establishing and nurturing local churches, and equipping believers for ministry.

 

While the early Church emphasized the importance of fellowship, community, and the gathering of believers, there is no indication that the apostles had a system for monitoring or keeping records of individual movements among different gatherings or communities. The early Church was characterized by a sense of unity, mutual support, and shared faith, rather than a fragmented emphasis on individual attendance.

 

It is important to note that the New Testament was written in a specific cultural and historical context, and the dynamics of the early Church may differ from contemporary practices. Today, church attendance and participation can vary due to a variety of factors, including personal preferences, geographic mobility, and theological alignment.

 

While some modern church leaders and pastors may track attendance or maintain records for practical purposes such as pastoral care or communication, it is not a biblical mandate or a specific requirement based on the practices of the early Church. Church leaders today should focus on nurturing a sense of community, discipleship, and spiritual growth within their congregations while respecting the freedom of individuals to engage with various expressions of Christian fellowship according to their personal circumstances and convictions.

 

THOUGHT: I fought the Old Timey  LAW and the LORD won!”

TD ASKS AI:

Q. What is the difference between “voluntary Christian ministry church attendance ” Being under authority” ” being under required covering authority
Q. Was there any First Church directive that EACH Believer “must” be “under” a “local pastor” …
Q. Describe how the First church would operate in authority using “chain of command” Ephesians 5:21 in a fellowship, ministry?

AI RESPONDS:

NOTE THIS: In the New Testament, there is a distinction between voluntary Christian ministry church attendance, being under authority, and being under a required covering authority.

• VOLUNTARY Christian Ministry Church Attendance: The New Testament encourages believers to gather together for worship, teaching, fellowship, and mutual edification. Church attendance is voluntary and stems from the desire to grow in faith, worship God, and build community with other believers. It is a personal decision and commitment to be part of a local body of believers.

 

• BEING UNDER (VOLUNTARY) AUTHORITY: The New Testament teaches that believers are to submit to spiritual leaders and authorities within the context of the local church. This submission is voluntary and based on respect for their leadership, the recognition of their role in shepherding and guiding the flock, and the desire to benefit from their spiritual wisdom and care.

 

• BEING “UNDER” REQUIRED GOVERNING AUTHORITY: The concept of required covering authority, where believers must be under a specific individual or leader for spiritual covering, is not explicitly taught in the New Testament. While accountability and guidance from spiritual leaders are important, the ultimate authority and covering for believers come from their relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

 

• OFFICE/AUTHORITY CHAIN OF COMMAND: Regarding the “chain of command” and Ephesians 5:21, it is important to note that Ephesians 5:21 states, “submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.” This verse emphasizes mutual submission within the body of Christ, where believers are called to serve and submit to one another in love and humility.
• 

TD ASKS AI:
Q. ALSO tells the differences in “freedom in Christ” vs “Being controlled or dominated”
Q. OR being caught up in a “cult?

AI REPLIES:

Regarding the differences between freedom in Christ and being controlled or dominated or caught up in a cult, the New Testament emphasizes the freedom believers have in Christ.

This freedom includes freedom from sin, freedom to love and serve others, and freedom from religious legalism. However, freedom in Christ does not imply a license to live in disobedience or disregard for biblical principles.

Being controlled or dominated in an unhealthy manner or being caught up in a cult typically involves manipulation, abuse of power, and the distortion of biblical truth.

It is important for believers to exercise discernment, study the Scriptures, and be rooted in sound biblical teaching to avoid being led astray or being part of harmful situations.

TD ASKS AI

Q. Did the First Church chief apostles demand that all believers be “SUBMITTED.” Furthermore, did they keep tabs on persons in the Christian community to record if they were “UNSUBMITTED?” OR “SUBMITTED?”
AND, Q. Is that a Bible New Testament Rule?
PS How does that apply today?

 

AI RESPONDS:

In the New Testament, there is no explicit record of the chief apostles keeping detailed tabs on individual members of the early Church or requiring submission in the sense of monitoring their daily lives or activities. The role of the apostles was primarily focused on teaching, preaching, guiding, and nurturing the spiritual growth of the believers.

While the apostles provided pastoral care and instruction, their focus was on the spiritual well-being of the believers and the overall health and growth of the Church. They exhorted the believers to live according to the teachings of Christ, to love one another, and to pursue holiness. However, they did not have a role in micromanaging the personal affairs or activities of individual believers.

TD ASKS AI

Tell the difference between the First Church “accountability” and “the modern submission” instituted teaching?

 

AI RESPONDS:
The New Testament does highlight the importance of accountability and mutual care within the Christian community. Believers were encouraged to support and exhort one another, to address issues of sin and conflict, and to promote unity and love within the body of Christ.

 

However, this was not primarily the responsibility of the apostles alone but a shared responsibility among the believers.

 

In terms of modern application, the principles of accountability, care, and mutual support within the Church continue to be important. Pastors, leaders, and fellow believers can play a role in guiding, teaching, and providing spiritual oversight within the context of their respective roles.

However, it is crucial to balance this with respect for personal freedom, privacy, and individual responsibility.

 

Different churches and denominations may have varying practices and structures for providing pastoral care and accountability.

 

It is essential for believers to find healthy and biblically grounded communities where they can receive guidance, support, and accountability while also recognizing their own personal responsibility in living out their faith.

 

Overall, the New Testament emphasizes the importance of personal relationship with God, the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and the communal responsibility of believers in fostering spiritual growth and mutual care within the body of Christ.

TD ASKS AI

“Have you ever heard of the ministers who use the term that they are “apostles in the gates of the city” (over all others)

 

AI STATES:

The term “apostles in the gates of the city” or similar variations is not found in the Bible and does not have its origins in the early Church or apostolic teachings. It is a concept that emerged in certain modern Christian circles, particularly within the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) movement.

 

The New Apostolic Reformation is a movement that emerged in the late 20th century, which emphasizes the restoration of apostolic governance and authority in the Church. This movement, led by various individuals and groups, including C. Peter Wagner, sought to establish a framework for contemporary apostles and prophets to exercise significant authority and leadership in the Church.

 

The specific phrase “apostles in the gates of the city” or similar expressions are not universally used within the NAR movement. However, it reflects the idea that these modern-day apostles are called to occupy positions of spiritual authority and influence, comparable to gatekeepers who have significant impact on the spiritual climate and direction of cities or regions.

 

It’s important to note that the teachings and practices of the NAR movement have been a subject of debate and controversy within the broader Christian community. Different Christian denominations and scholars may hold differing views on the validity and interpretation of contemporary apostolic roles and structures.

 

Regarding C. Peter Wagner, he was a prominent figure within the New Apostolic Reformation movement and an influential professor of Church Growth at Fuller Theological Seminary. He contributed to the development of the NAR theology and advocated for the recognition and establishment of modern apostolic ministries. However, it is essential to conduct further research and engage with a variety of perspectives to form a comprehensive understanding of the movement and its teachings.

 

ASIDE NOTE: (TD HAS SPECIFIC, UP CLOSE DIRE USA ACCUSER, ATTACK SOLEMN EXAMPLES DUE TO THIS GROUP..WHEN GOD ALLOWS, I WILL SPEAK SPECIFICALLY BUT NOT TARGET THE INDIVIDUAl PERSONS)(ON BEHALF OF THE CHRISTIAN BODY, A SAMPLE FRUIT, ON BEHALF, OF MANY SIMILAR HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS OR TENS OF THOUSANDS) Luke Eye Witness

 

TD ADVICES” UP TO HERE MOST OF THIS, if not Majority of this is the main roots in WELP authority.(especially and most significantly the latter!)

 

TD ASKS ABOUT THE OVERSEER “SHEPHERDING MOVEMENT” (1970s)
Q. Reminding of the “Shepherding” (Deep South, Florida) governing ministry movent: Bob Mumford Don Bahsam and New Wine Magazine
Q. How does that tie with First Church authority and Christian freedom(legalism, to control leader women, servant minorities)

 

AI RESPONDS:

The Shepherding or Discipleship Movement, associated with Bob Mumford, Don Basham and others, emerged in the 1970s and emphasized a strong hierarchical structure of authority and submission within the context of local churches.

It sought to implement a “shepherding” model where believers were placed under the authority and guidance of specific leaders or “shepherds” for various aspects of their lives.

(TD SEES THIS A “SUBMISSION MAIN KEY” )

Ai continues: The teachings of the Shepherding Movement were controversial and received criticism due to reports of abusive practices and excessive control by some leaders.

The movement placed heavy emphasis on submission, accountability, and obedience to spiritual authority, which led to concerns about manipulation and the potential for spiritual abuse.

AI’S NOTE: It is important to note that the Shepherding Movement is not directly connected to the early Church or the principles of authority and freedom as depicted in the New Testament.

While the New Testament does emphasize the importance of spiritual oversight and accountability within the context of the local church, it does not promote the kind of top-down control and submission that was characteristic of the Shepherding Movement.

 

TD ASKS AI”

Q. IS “Shepherding movement” connected to New Apostolic Reformation “there are certain apostles over the gates of every city?”

AI RESPONDS:

As for its connection to the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) movement and the concept of “apostles in the gate of the city,” there may be some overlapping theological ideas or shared influences, but it is important to recognize that these are separate movements with their own distinct teachings and practices.

The NAR movement, as mentioned earlier, focuses on the restoration of apostolic governance and authority in the Church, while the Shepherding Movement had a different emphasis on hierarchical spiritual oversight.

It is important for individuals to exercise discernment, study the Scriptures, and seek wisdom from God when engaging with various teachings and movements. Evaluating them based on biblical principles, the character of Christ, and the fruit they produce is crucial in navigating these areas of theology and practice.

TD NOTES” “PERSONAL FREEDOM IN CHRIST”(Noble Berean Bible Study to sort it all out)

TAVEAU ASK AI
Q. In the 1970s shepherding movement..discuss leader males being OVER all women and any more

AI RESPONDS:

The Shepherding Movement in the 1970s did promote a hierarchical structure that included the idea of male leaders having authority over women. This teaching was influenced by a complementarian view of gender roles, which posits that men have a primary leadership role and authority in the family and the Church, while women are to submit to male leadership.

 

However, it is important to note that this view of gender roles and authority is not universally accepted among Christians and denominations. Different theological perspectives exist regarding gender roles and equality within the Church, and there are diverse interpretations of biblical passages related to this topic.

 

In recent decades, there has been significant progress in discussions surrounding gender equality and a reevaluation of traditional interpretations of Scripture. Many Christians embrace an egalitarian perspective that affirms the equal value, worth, and gifting of both men and women in all areas of life and ministry.

 

It’s important to approach discussions on gender roles and leadership in a manner that respects different viewpoints and seeks to uphold biblical principles of love, respect, and the recognition of the gifts and calling of all believers, regardless of gender.

TD ASIDE: TD IS FOR “HUMAN EQUALITY’ REGARDLESS OF TYPE, GENDER, AGE, RACE, CULTURE AND SET BELIEFS, FAITH, GO TO CHURCH OR NOT.

OUR HOME MANTRA…. EORR “EQUAL OPPORTUNITY “REAL RESPECT” FOR THE OFFICE OF EVERY HUMAN MADE IN GOD’S IMAGE (PSALM 139)

 SAY EORR!

 

TAVEAU ASKS AI:

Q Was the 1970s overseer “Shepherding” movement rigid, legalistic about “women with authority” and were leader women allowed to train, preach move in the spirit

AI ANSWERS:

Yes, the Shepherding Movement of the 1970s was known for its rigidity and legalistic approach to gender roles and authority. In many cases, the movement promoted a hierarchical structure that limited the roles and authority of women within the church.

** (NOTE) It adhered to a complementarian perspective, which held that men should hold positions of leadership and authority, while women were to be submissive and restricted in certain roles.

This approach often led to restrictions on women in leadership positions, limited opportunities for women to exercise their spiritual gifts, and an emphasis on male dominance within the movement. Women were often discouraged from pursuing roles such as teaching, preaching, or holding positions of authority within the church

(TD SAYS “under Apostle Paul common doctrine it IS THEIR CHOICE whom to serve).

YET NOTE: However, it’s important to note that not all individuals or groups within the Shepherding Movement had the same exact beliefs or practices.

While the movement as a whole tended to promote a more restrictive view of women in leadership, there may have been variations in how these beliefs were applied at the local level.

It’s also worth noting that since the 1970s, there has been significant progress in the understanding and affirmation of women’s gifts and leadership within Christian circles. Many churches and denominations now embrace egalitarian views, which affirm the equal value, worth, and gifting of both men and women and encourage women to serve in leadership roles, including teaching, preaching, and exercising their spiritual gifts.

As with any theological perspective, it’s important to approach the topic with discernment, study the Scriptures, and engage in respectful dialogue, recognizing the diversity of beliefs and interpretations on this matter within the broader Christian community.

TD ADDS THIS CHRISTIAN BODY PS

SO THIS IS WHAT I NOW “NAME AND TRAIN “…FOR APOSTLES …”THE WELP” STUDIES 

Note: Discovering all of this (slowly), this was probably the roughest time period of serving the Lord Jesus Christ in my life.

The real reason? Over the many years of being sent to study the diverse USA body of Christ in ministry leadership, I watched as society, life, and the ministry became more hardened, commercial, and ambitious. Many other movements also contributed to all of this, and many ministers, including myself, did not grow up around this but thought (for a while) that this was the thing to do. But all of it wasn’t. Now we are paying a steep price.

Toss the added white witchcraft, advertising, celebrity hype, entertainment, and shallow representations of Christ and ministry. What it means to “follow Him” and be “saved” has also morphed and been lost. This is noted primarily by the lost holy fear of the Lord in most of the Church and in ministry.

My Specific Topic is “Seers Gone Wild” using invisible white witchcraft/occult( aggressive,defiling, mind probing,never speaking but rumoring about what the “inner saw” (by deep scan reading you, me, many us) From FAR AWAY!

 

God is calling us OUT OF ALL OF THIS FALSENESS and ministry SUBMISSION (Dubbed Neo Phariseeism)  ACCUSATION..never ceasing,” EVIL EYE demonic “witchwatching” (FAR AWAY)  “mind reading and inner deep scanning’ for it dehumanizes, label, vilifies, generates never ending big Gossip.

 

Also it reviles, publically jumps,  murders many persons reputations, character assassinates and undermines..for it is a JUDAS(money), PYTHON and LEVITHAN (Job 41) major TV CELEBRITY WANNABE non contrite Big Boss Ambition..It respects “pet persons only” and is now only for the “gifted and grandiose elite”

PLUS It ignores “real everyday walk in people” And that is MY TURF.

Thus from the 1980’s onward, I learned about, was attacked by,and Bible Studied, yet  SURVIVED THE NEO PHARISEES.(these who love to crack their whips (demonic energy to control) even at newbies and angels very unaware).

But I do not boast, I must not….as it has been by the skin of my teeth AND over time..and much doing research, much Good Bible Study.. (Great Parents who were living epistles… and by God’s MERCY!)

WITHSTANDING MINSITRY HAS TO STOP!

LET US EACH SUMMON OUR COURAGE and DO WHAT IS RIGHT..no what is RIGHT FOR OURSELF, FOR ME and FOR YOU..but for the CHRIST and the LOST..

For all of these have been making to HARD TO WANT TO A CHARISMATIC, TONGUE TALKING, MOSTLY GREAT WORSHIP.. CHURCH .

In fact, Paul commands that (in these Last Days” even the Churches would allow this perilious sordid fruit..And now were are HERE in that long foretold period of time

So along with the admonishing to PAULINE Hebrews 10;25 “do not forsake the fellowshipping with the saints as so have” ..WE MUST provide due teaching due to these “perilous leadeship days” and warn EVEN GOD’S PEOPLE to “turn away from” the following ministry dyfunctional unsure “FRUIT”  

Which is listed by Paul himself: (BOTH OF THESE MAKE GREAT TEACHING LISTS)

2 Timothy 3:1-5: (LONG LIST..MUST BE NOW ADDRESSED)  “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”

1 Timothy 6:5: “Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.”

A lot more later!

BUT before closing Dr T wants to submit her own personal favorite CHARACTER and RELATIONSHIP FRUIT, NON BIASED BIBLE VERSION..also for pastoral, apostolic ministry, lay, leader, parental, youth training

ABIDING JAMES 3:17 PURE FRUIT (even under big pressure …by enlisting  w God’s help)

James 3:17 “But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.”

 

SUBMITTED AS A BODY OF CHRIST (“LESS IS MORE”) SOLEMN SELAH, FOR FOOD FOR THOUGHT!

Ministers, GOD BLESS!

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“TD SAYS, ” YOU NEED TO VIEW THIS, ME AS A RESOURCE..SENT TO COLLABORATE, CONTRIBUTE, NOT COMPETE BUT TO COMPLMENT, FILL IN MISSING GAPS AND DIALOGUE  “PRO COMMUNITY” FOR SAVING THE LOST (Mature Ministry Problem Solving’Cross Body “iron sharpens iron” PS Christian Ministry Consulting, by Divine Appointment Training, IFFM Mentoring Ephesian 2:19-21

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